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What’s the difference? Can I see piefed communities through Lemmy? Or do I need a different account and/or app?
Piefed has more features and different devs. From an user perspective they’re not very different.
How different are the devs? Is it just a fork where they regularly pull the upstream lemmy? Or ground up?
This account is getting pretty old and about due for a nuking and dessalines seems to be speedrunning being the tankie musk (right down to surrounding himself with bot-friends). Lemmy is still good enough software but looking for an offramp if you catch my drift.
the lemmy devs are commies
is that not the obvious thing
are the piefed devs commies too?
what is this, the 1950s?
To be clear: I don’t give a fuck if someone identifies as communist. I disagree (more in the vicinity of demsoc, personally) but people have had more impractical ideologies.
The issue is that dessalines et al are very much tankies. People who will say and do whatever it takes to say that china and russia are correct because both of those countries used to identify as communist (how long either actually was is up for debate). And that tends to manifest as actively supporting the invasion of Ukraine and the state sponsored ethnic cleansing by, among other horrors, rape of (among multiple ethnic groups) the Uyghurs
PieFed main devs support human rights.
PieFed is not a fork of Lemmy. It is a different software, but able to share content with Lemmy using the ActivityPub protocol.
For more info: https://join.piefed.social/features/
Piefed isn’t run by cringe tankies who have diminished the struggle of an actual revolutionary by soiling their namesake with the view from an air conditioned computer chair.
Also, piefed isn’t run by cringe tankies who call trans people bourgeoisie western pink washing, and then goes around begging for donations as if we owe them anything besides scorn.
I looked into making yet another account, this time on piefed, but didn’t like the automatic blocking of a few communities. Yeah, I’m a massive hypocrite because I argued hard for the defederation of maga.place from sh.itjust.works, but since coming to lemmy.today I don’t like the idea of automatic defederation where the users don’t have input.
Are there any piefed instances that don’t block anything? Or, is there a way for me to befriend everyone on my account?
piefed.zip is likely the one that doesn’t block anything if it is modelled after lemmy.zip here.
Disclaimer: I checked into piefed shit again and this unexpectedly turned into a whole thing.
I found this here https://join.piefed.social/features/ :
Default Blocks – Lemmygrad, Hexbear, and Nazi instances are blocked out of the box.
Does that mean they can’t be unblocked? And now I’m seeing:
Authoritarian Inoculation – Feature to reduce the impact of authoritarian propaganda.
That gave me pause, not because I want to promote authoritarian propaganda, but I’m concerned about someone else deciding what’s authoritarian.
And:
Low Reputation Indicator – Identifies consistently downvoted users.
This feels like karma. I’m alright with rule-breaking stuff getting deleted and people getting banned for bad behavior, but I don’t think people should be flagged for consistently going against the popular narrative. If they’re being assholes users can report them.
Does that mean they can’t be unblocked?
They can be unblocked. They’re just blocked by default.
These are all tools that can be modified by server admins.
Fair enough. Thanks for the info!
Authoritarian Inoculation – Feature to reduce the impact of authoritarian propaganda.
That’s just the anti-propaganda links on the side.
Correct, and an admin can even disable those if they want to run a propaganda piefed instance for whatever reason.
I found this here https://join.piefed.social/features/ :
Note how that link points to PieFed.social. Yes, those are defederated at the instance level, so a user cannot work around that - Lemmy defederation works the same way. However, PieFed.zip is a separate instance from PieFed.socual, and does not defederate from much at all.
Low Reputation Indicator
I find that feature very helpful. It’s merely a visual indicator placed next to the username, which is very different than the software making decisions for me on what content to show or not, and that indicator helps clue me in that responding to e.g. an argumentative person is unlikely to enhance my day. Also while I don’t recall the details on how it is set, imagine if you will that someone receives 10x more downvotes total than upvotes. Such an account is usually a troll. Most people get downvotes occasionally, but that would not trigger the indicator to be shown (and again, even if it somehow did, it’s just a visual icon, not a block or anything).
Lemmy is FAR more known for authoritative censorship than PieFed. Particularly those instances mentioned like hexbear and the infamous lemmy.ml where you cannot criticize Russia, China, or North Korea without being banned from every community on the entire instance including those you’ve never even heard of.
The link doesn’t point to the instance, that’s the main blog/info site for piefed.
Either way my question about blocking was answered, now I know the block list isn’t baked into piefed itself.
I don’t agree with the low rep feature. There are rules, reporting and blocking available moderate communities. If one user doesn’t want to interact with another for non-rulebreaking reasons, they can block them, tag them, or just not respond. This just opens up new reasons to manipulate votes and downvote unpopular opinions.
I’m on Lemmy.Today, so I disagree that it’s authoritative. This instance doesn’t block/isn’t blocked by any instance, and allows all opinions that aren’t bigoted or insulting. There’s a whole spectrum of vibes across the instances but there’s nothing authoritative about the Lemmy ground rules.
Yeah, I think OpenStars means the ruleset in lemmy.ml which is the equivalent instance to lemmy as piefed.social is to piefed.
However hypothetically authoritarian piefed.social might become, it doesn’t reflect on the piefed software itself necessarily.
I doubt that a normal user would get themselves flagged with the low rep icon though. Even receiving twice as many, triple as many, quadruple or quintuple as many downvotes as upvotes would not do it. To receive ten times as many downvotes as upvotes is someone who is entirely ignoring the consent of users to have to read their
crapahem “offered opinions”. That is Reddit-level hostility there, and something that your average conscientious Threadiverse participant will never experience - except unfortunately on the receiving end, as some very few people seem to take great pleasure in absolutely flaunting the rules in every community that they visit.It would also take a MASSIVE vote-altering campaign to counteract that effect. Something which if only due to its sheer scale might be noticed. And at that point it would be easier to create a new Lemmy account - some instances require nothing to make that happen - or even spin up a new instance in order to skirt the effects of downvoting.
In short, reputation is a part of the normal human set of interactions. PieFed acknowledges that and exceedingly gently places an icon next to the usernames of the most egregious offenders. I for one do not think that is a bad thing, even on purely theoretical grounds. We aren’t trying to recreate a new 4chan here (we already have Hexbear for that - seriously! 😐)
Skavau already covered the point about lemmy.ml being authoritative whereas Lemmy.today is not (in general there are 4 well-known tankie authoritarian instances and Lemmy.today is not one of those:-).
4 well-known tankie authoritarian instances
Which one is 4th?
Midwest.social - the admin Seahorse famously banning people for downvoting them. Yeah definitely less well-known than the usual 3.
I was responding to this comment:
Lemmy is FAR more known for authoritative censorship than PieFed.
I’m aware of the weirder instances. I was saying Lemmy itself isn’t authoritative.
I’m not opposed to the reputation thing because I think manipulation will end in false positives, but because there are better systems to moderate users than popularity. Without knowing the details of it, seems like a straight ratio would disproportionately affect people who don’t post as often. Some people have like 30 comments over a year, most with two or three votes. At that point it just takes one or two really unpopular opinions to shift that ratio drastically. But I donno, maybe there’s a threshold.
Even so, right now I don’t mind leaving my more unpopular comments up because the fruitcake of conversation is better with a few odd chunks, and it doesn’t affect anything. The threat of a reputation label, no matter how unlikely it is to get one, is an incentive to please the crowd, and I think making votes mean anything was part of the problem with reddit. I don’t want anything to get in the way of a passionate user and their rant, I’m here for the crazy.
Plus, In moderating my community I found a few people who just straight downvote everything. One of the accounts I checked had hundreds of hours of downvoting, like an insane amount of clicking arrows. Tens of thousands of downvotes. I don’t want any kind of system someone like that can influence.
Regardless, I respect your argument and your points are valid. We might have to agree to disagree, and maybe I’ll see you on piefed soon, despite my criticisms.
Originally I meant that the Lemmy ecosystem is generally speaking more authoritarian than the PieFed one. This is in large part due to the preferences of the devs.
I will now also add the new related point that I think the coding design of Lemmy lends itself more to authoritarian control. It seems geared and marketed more towards instance admins, then mods, then users only last. Tbf PieFed is the same way here, but with a different focus due to the preferences of the main designer.
Lemmy is even more authoritarian than Reddit itself in many ways: Reddit at least sends a user a notification whenever their content is removed, plus users (and anyone who commented or otherwise has a direct link) can still see their content even after that. Reddit users may also contact the moderators via mod mail. In contrast, despite how Lemmy has the modlog, again there are no notifications for removal, and the modlog just says that the action was done by a “mod” (it used to always have the username, but now it can just say “mod”, so over time Lemmy has actually moved in the direction to become MORE authoritarian than it used to be, not less).
To be fair, PieFed also lacks a mod mail or notification upon removal of content, but I feel like for Piefed it is simply because it is new and new features being added monthly, even practically weekly. Whereas for Lemmy it gives an impression at least that it is a design choice that seems unlikely to ever change towards more democratic principles. We will see how they each develop over more time I suppose.
For now, many Lemmy instances are very free and open, subject to the software constraints, while others are extremely closed down, most especially lemmy.ml that the main Lemmy developer seems to spend an inordinate amount of time moderating rather than tweaking the codebase. That’s fine btw, it’s his code and he can do whatever he wants with it, although for me I choose PieFed instead, for all the above reasons and so much more.
Speaking of, none of what you said sounds to me like it should result in someone receiving a visual icon due to poor reputation. I’ve had some massively downvoted content myself, but if the system is implemented properly then it will consider more like a median downvoting rather than maximum or even average. Theoretically someone who only made 10 comments and >=9 of those were downvoted heavily, yeah they would get that icon. However, the icon does not cause filtering of their content (there are other things that can but those are entirely separate and not based on the user account), it’s merely a visual display. I’ve upvoted, downvoted, and replied to people’s comments even when I can see that icon - so it in no way blocks me from doing so or from seeing it in the first place. But it does (helpfully imho) label it, so that I have a better indicator going in what I am getting myself into.
Lemmy is fine though what are you on about
Well, it works. But Piefed is developing more features quicker atm.
So we should all just jump? Meh. Lemmy 1.0 is releasing soon which should help quite a bit.
Not necessarely that’s the beauty of the fediverse. You can enjoy PieFed growth and all it’s content but stick on Lemmy if you don’t feel like moving.
AFAIK the two can federate with eachother so I’m glad we have both.
Thesis: Lemmy is better!
Antithesis: Piefed is better!
Synthesis: Bitch, they’re federated??
Doesn’t matter to me, I’m still using the old reddit theme on .world and that’s what I want to keep using.
Piefed or Lemmy, it’s the same content, so you’re arguing about either UI or philosophical differences (Lemmy devs are tankies or whatever).
I’d consider Piefed if they had an old reddit UI available, but that’s never gonna happen and I absolutely cannot stand either Lemmy’s or Piefed’s UI.
Okay but it is developed by authoritarian communists. I mean it doesn’t have to annoy you, but it definitely annoys me.
I don’t like the devs but at the same time it’s not like they wield much power over users outside of the flagship instance, lemmy.ml. That’s the nice thing about decentralized FOSS social media. Can even make a fork if they ever did something unpopular.
But they administrate their flag ship instance, which for a long time was the first instance new users registrated on, only to then see on what power trips the Admins are on. The missing separation of development of administration is literally the only critic point I have. If course, Lemmy is decentralized and that is a great thing. Over time, lemmy.ml already lost relevance and it will lose more as lemmy grows. But people tend to think “oh, so this is the official instance I better join there”, just to then face opinions promoting North Korea or denying Russia’s guilt in the invasion of Ukraine and so on. Check out the media bias in Lemmy.ml’s news communities, it is insane.
Check !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works for many examples.
Lemmy is fine though
except crazy authoritarian tankie leadership? It’s just a matter of time until one of them goes wacky (again) and brings down the entire brand.
It’s good to diversify here.
Who cares if the devs are communists, worst comes to worst you can always fork it while you look for an alternative. Never has come to that though, and it doesn’t look like it will.
I don’t care that they are communists, I care about how they are assholes. I don’t owe assholes anything, certainly not loyalty. They are a toxic influence on the fediverse and should be marginalized. Maybe there was an argument that people should just let them cook when there was not alternative, but that is no longer the case.
that is just one instance, in particular lemmy.ml. pretty much everywhere else they make fun of them.
That’s just the tankie triad. there are lemmy instances that aren’t run by nutters, feddit.uk for example
Upvotes mean jack, where’s the community engagement
HERE’S YOUR COMMUNITY YOU FECKIN EEDJIT
floss your limey
teeth with my asshairTo the lovely tory rat that reported my comment as “bigotry”, sorry, White Anglo-Saxon Protestants don’t get to play that card. Go boil your babby yed along yer mum’s yams.
Can’t imagine why people don’t want to hang around y’all
