Well, I think it’s legit to use software without understanding the code or use hardware without understanding the specifics of the logical mechanisms of the silicon. But when you’re writing software, you really should know what’s in your own code. Anything else is bad form in my opinion.
I don’t like to use libraries I don’t understand. Probably part why I’m not a professional developer, but it’s the principle of the thing - don’t put out code you can’t vouch for.
I mean, yes, it’s way easier to just use the library, trust it works; but by that logic, it’s also way easier to just let an llm code for you.
Probably part why I’m not a professional developer, but it’s the principle of the thing
There’s no ‘principle’ here, that’s something that simply would not be possible in any sort of large project. To suggest all professional software developers read every line of every library before using it is ridiculously unworkable.
…but do yoz “understand libraries” by reading every line of their code, or by reading the documentation? And only in the parts you’re actually interested in?
Yeah, a general understanding is enough. But I think yeah, actually skim over the code, at least get a basic idea about how the internal methods work. Depending on what you’re using the library for, it could be prudent to know more about how data structures are handled.
Honestly, you’ll probably learn something in the process.
The code YOU run. If your code runs other code, that doesn’t fall under this.
“Don’t ride a car unless you know how driving a car works” doesn’t mean you need to understand the chemical composition of the metal in the motor parts
it was always a risk in stack overflow so i dont see why suddenly the world needs to exclusively create safe spaces for all the ‘down with safe spaces’ crowd.
Like all of human knowledge, I swear you antillm people are out of your mind.
Here we have a way to bring coding and creation to the masses at a much lower bar and most of the LLM projects I see are MIT licensed, it’s literally a revolution for open source but half of you are pearl clutching and acting like god damn Microsoft.
Self host an open model, but yeah 20 a month is not that expensive for what you can do with it.
But that’s not what anyone in this thread is saying, they’re saying LLM code bad and stealing so let’s poison open source projects. Also sharing code is bad now, when I’m sure many of these people would claim they like open source code.
Again, I think knowledge and code should be free for all to use so that we all benefit from it.
You don’t have to delegate thinking, I’m sure many people will but it’s absolutely not a requirement for using LLMs as the intended tool they are.
On the topic of price, I’m sure people were saying the same things about books (oh must be nice you can afford books), then the same about computers and the internet. They eventually became more affordable.
Not even going to touch the “I couldn’t understand economic heardship” aspect.
I’m just showing that as technology progresses and scales it generally becomes cheaper and peoples access increases, again were literally on the internet now and have phones in our pockets that can do it, whereas 40 years ago PCs were much more expensive and internet was slow as hell.
We shouldn’t trust big tech, I’m on Lemmy so that should be a bit of a given lol.
“self host an open model”. My dude, you need pretty beefy hardware to run a slow and shit model that won’t even compare to the 0.33x models you get with a copilot subscription.
Its getting better all the time, its crazy how much better consumer level hardware can run competent models (even if it’s lower params) these days compared to just 6 months ago.
I think that’s the problem though, isn’t it. It is other people’s work, condensed down into what could semi-accurately be called a statistics based random word generator. If LLMs were good at it or had people checking behind then that were good we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place.
I meant more the process of generating code via LLM isn’t work. The end result ultimately uses someone else’s work, yes, but the process can be and should be sabotaged.
Luckily, the LLM coding isnt people’s work
I mean, my thought would be “Don’t fucking run code that you don’t understand”.
If we all followed that rule, we’d be using nothing more complex than an 8080.
True, but I would think developers should at least be following it with the code they’re actually working on.
It’s an imported library, since when are devs expected to be inspecting the source code of every library they import?
Since forever? Don’t you do security audits on the libraries you use?
One person from the team, maybe. You don’t have every single dev read every line of code in the libraries, which is what is being specified here
it used to be a thing but javascript npm brainrot happened
Well, I think it’s legit to use software without understanding the code or use hardware without understanding the specifics of the logical mechanisms of the silicon. But when you’re writing software, you really should know what’s in your own code. Anything else is bad form in my opinion.
It’s an imported library, since when are devs expected to be inspecting the source code of every library they import?
I don’t like to use libraries I don’t understand. Probably part why I’m not a professional developer, but it’s the principle of the thing - don’t put out code you can’t vouch for.
I mean, yes, it’s way easier to just use the library, trust it works; but by that logic, it’s also way easier to just let an llm code for you.
There’s no ‘principle’ here, that’s something that simply would not be possible in any sort of large project. To suggest all professional software developers read every line of every library before using it is ridiculously unworkable.
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? Do you have me confused with somebody else?
…but do yoz “understand libraries” by reading every line of their code, or by reading the documentation? And only in the parts you’re actually interested in?
Yeah, a general understanding is enough. But I think yeah, actually skim over the code, at least get a basic idea about how the internal methods work. Depending on what you’re using the library for, it could be prudent to know more about how data structures are handled.
Honestly, you’ll probably learn something in the process.
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Yes it can, its literally still code.
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The code YOU run. If your code runs other code, that doesn’t fall under this.
“Don’t ride a car unless you know how driving a car works” doesn’t mean you need to understand the chemical composition of the metal in the motor parts
Reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPKGbg16ulU (and also https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS0N5baNlQWJCUrhCEo8WlA)
it was always a risk in stack overflow so i dont see why suddenly the world needs to exclusively create safe spaces for all the ‘down with safe spaces’ crowd.
It’s the stolen work of other people.
Like all of human knowledge, I swear you antillm people are out of your mind.
Here we have a way to bring coding and creation to the masses at a much lower bar and most of the LLM projects I see are MIT licensed, it’s literally a revolution for open source but half of you are pearl clutching and acting like god damn Microsoft.
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Self host an open model, but yeah 20 a month is not that expensive for what you can do with it.
But that’s not what anyone in this thread is saying, they’re saying LLM code bad and stealing so let’s poison open source projects. Also sharing code is bad now, when I’m sure many of these people would claim they like open source code.
Again, I think knowledge and code should be free for all to use so that we all benefit from it.
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You don’t have to delegate thinking, I’m sure many people will but it’s absolutely not a requirement for using LLMs as the intended tool they are.
On the topic of price, I’m sure people were saying the same things about books (oh must be nice you can afford books), then the same about computers and the internet. They eventually became more affordable.
Not even going to touch the “I couldn’t understand economic heardship” aspect.
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I’m just showing that as technology progresses and scales it generally becomes cheaper and peoples access increases, again were literally on the internet now and have phones in our pockets that can do it, whereas 40 years ago PCs were much more expensive and internet was slow as hell.
We shouldn’t trust big tech, I’m on Lemmy so that should be a bit of a given lol.
“self host an open model”. My dude, you need pretty beefy hardware to run a slow and shit model that won’t even compare to the 0.33x models you get with a copilot subscription.
Its getting better all the time, its crazy how much better consumer level hardware can run competent models (even if it’s lower params) these days compared to just 6 months ago.
I’m a developer, and I support this message.
Fuck all LLM created content. Fuck it all. Burn it all down, my friends.
I think that’s the problem though, isn’t it. It is other people’s work, condensed down into what could semi-accurately be called a statistics based random word generator. If LLMs were good at it or had people checking behind then that were good we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place.
I meant more the process of generating code via LLM isn’t work. The end result ultimately uses someone else’s work, yes, but the process can be and should be sabotaged.
So long as the person is using some form of version control, it’s effectively just a slap on the wrist.